I sat down with Dr. Jason Worzbyt, an adjunct professor of bassoon at Indiana University of Pennsylvania.
We talked all about:
- Performing bassoon premieres – being in the right place at the right time 🏆
- What younger musicians can do to prepare for auditions — from a PMEA adjudicator 🎶
- Staying mindful in performance 🧠
- Networking in music 💪
And much more!
Click here to listen to the full conversation.
Sometimes we don’t have the time to read a 45 minute conversation, so we have this clip. Today we chat about making mindful performances and auditions with Dr. Jason Worzbyt.
Here is that clip:
Your host, Eleanor:
I think this um. This ties right into our next um, I guess, question which is talking all about um, like you being an adjudicator for PMEA, um, that is, pennsylvania, and um. The question for you is how are high school student auditioners compared to university level musicians when they audition, and can you give us maybe like three tips or pieces of advice for high school students preparing for any auditions that they have coming up?
Dr. Jason Worzbyt:
so when you’re like preparing for an audition, what do you want to do? Okay, you’re going to get as many different answers for this as you are people that you would interview. So I’m going to give you I mean so. But on the other hand, I will tell you, as an ensemble director, I have heard probably thousands of auditions over the years for, you know, for ensemble placement.
So for me, if I was going to prioritize things, I really prioritize rhythm just above everything else. Is that because you can have the, you can have the most beautiful sound, you can have impeccable intonation. You can have impeccable intonation you, you can just have. You can have the most critical understanding of what you’re playing, but if there’s no rhythmic construct to it, it’s going to be hard for anyone to fit into a solo or an ensemble situation. It’s going to be very, very difficult to do that, you know, because sound will always impact the listener first. There’s nothing you can change about that. The type of sound or the sound that comes out of our instrument, voice or whatever, that is always going to impact the listener first and there’s not much we can do about that. But soon after that, you know, know, there’s this. There’s this, this element of um, there is this element of time that really kind of pulls everything together. And so I I listen a lot for um rhythm. Then I would say after that I prioritize sound. Okay, the type of you know. And I think it’s important to you know your sound is going to change throughout your career in many respects, I think, because of the different teachers that you’re going to study with. If you’re a musician, you’re changing equipment and stuff like that when you go through different teachers, but you know your sound is going to change over time. Yeah, but I really think it’s always important to be cultivating a sound. And if I would cross over maybe to what you would ask me about a high school student, you know, um, I, I I’m reminded of a line that bob Matchett once asked him.
Bob Matchett teaches in the Seneca Valley School District. He’s a terrific music educator and I was watching him teach once and he was. He asked this was a middle school band. And he asked the middle school band okay, how many of you have a favorite athlete? And they almost all did. Okay, how many of you have a favorite pop singer? And everyone else all did. And so then he looked at the trumpets, he goes okay, trumpets, who’s your favorite trumpet player, who’s your favorite, what’s your favorite trumpet sound? And they couldn’t answer. And so I think you know being able to listen and cultivate the sound that you want is important, but that comes from listening to a lot of sound, a of different people.
You know, yeah, uh, my, my teacher, one of my teachers, Eugene Corporon, always kind of with all of his conducting students, had this hierarchy of being in time, being in tone, being in tune and being in touch. So in time refers to to rhythm, in tone refers to tone quality. And then the third was the third one was playing in tune, and it’s interesting that he would put, um, that he would put playing in tone ahead of playing in tune, but one seat. But, but here’s the kicker most intonation problems, and I think we you can almost attach this to anything that you do, I would even say vocal students as well Most intonation issues are really tone production issues. Ah, okay, you know.
So you know, invariably, when we play out of tune, it’s usually a tone production issue. Either we’re having reed difficulties or the fingering isn’t. Maybe there’s a better fingering that we can use or maybe there’s a. You know, the amateur needs to be whatever, but in most cases cases they’re tone production issues, and so that’s why cultivating a really good sound is. That’s the second tip that I would give, and then I think the third tip is to listen a lot okay if you’re working on something, don’t listen, and this is if you can find recording.
But if you can don’t listen to one, listen to ten. And if you don’t know who to listen, to talk to your teacher, yeah. And if you’re working on so like for instance, if you’re working on the Mozart oboe concerto, you should listen to as many different recordings of that as you can, but you should also listen to well, what other music was he working on at the time?
Was he doing any piano concerto? Was he working? What symphonies was he doing? Was he working on any of the big operas? You should listen to that. Well, were there any other composers during that time that were also writing music for oboe? Well then you go. Other composers during that time that were also writing music for Bobo? Well then you go ahead and listen to that.
There’s a lot that can be gleaned, I think, from going multiple levels deeper into what we are working on. And now it’s easier than ever. Yes, it’s easier than ever. Yes, but I mean, eleanor, I come, I came from a generation where if I wanted to listen to something in depth, I I would go up to the music library, I would check out an lp, not a cd. Cds came a little bit later, but and we had some, but it was mostly LPs and then I had to go into the stacks, find the score. And now most, if not all, of the standard repertory is on sources like IMSLP or whatever. It’s all out there. And with YouTube I mean it’s the amount of information that is at a player’s fingertips now is it’s, it’s mind-boggling yeah, so it’s easier than ever now to do that type of in-depth listening.
You know, I’m trying to think this was, um, I’m gonna, I’m blanking at the. It might have been yasha heifetz, the very famous violin player I think this is what he that said this. Someone once asked him you know when you go, when he goes out on stage, is he 100 prepared and he goes.
Your host, Eleanor:
Well, you really need to be about 200 prepared, yeah yeah, uh-huh that type of that type of like bulletproof preparation yeah, 100 you know and those are good and see, all of these are habits that if you start earlier they’re kind of easy to incorporate too started recording this, I was listening to Mahler’s First Symphony because I’m playing it and you know I think listening is so extremely important with that as well, and also one of the tips you were talking about you know, creating the tone.
I know you, as a bassoonist, can probably relate to this, but something that I’m really focusing on is, you know, taking a reed and creating the tone I want with the reed, not necessarily just taking what the reed gives me, right, because every oboe reed and I’m sure this is the same with bassoon is different and some of them cooperate more than others. But what I’m really focusing on is kind of just being like you know, I have this reed and I’m going to make the sound that I want and I’m not just going to put up with what it gives me. So I think you know the old three of those tips and the insight in terms of you know what high school level musicians can do is so, so important 100%.
Dr. Jason Worzbyt:
Well, and sometimes you know it’s, I think, to a degree you know if you show, as a high school student, college student too. But you know as a high school student, if you show initiative to the teacher, most teachers will do anything for you If you go. No, I’m serious about that. I mean if you show, because I mean that was my experience with my. I mean, I think about the teachers that I had in high school and middle school, I probably had two of the best. I mean I really won the band director lottery. I mean I had two just incredible musicians, yeah, and when they saw that I was really kind of taking a serious interest, they would do anything for me. They gave up Between giving up extra time to help me with things and turning me on to recordings and stuff like that. Showing initiative to a teacher, I think, is just incredibly important. They’ll do anything for you.
Your host, Eleanor:
Yeah, I think I mean I’ve had experience with that, especially applying for university. Yeah, I think I mean I’ve had experience with that, especially applying for university. I applied to 12 different schools in three different countries and across the board you know when I showed initiative they got very excited to work with me. Yeah, 100%. Actually, talking about like auditioning things like that, I’d love to kind of just chat a bit about how you audition. What are like three things that you always do to prepare for an audition.
Dr. Jason Worzbyt:
Well, that’s a good question, Because I really haven’t. I haven’t done an audition in a while. So let me, let me kind of spin it this way. Okay, how about, if this is maybe how I would prepare for a performance, and if you want to think of as an audition, as a performance, which it really is, you know that. So this is what I do. Um, for me, I think the most important thing in my, one of the most important things in my preparation, is that I try to never play it wrong. I try, I try now, that’s the operative word okay I try to never play it wrong because there’s there’s this you know, the way our, the way our mind works is that you know, if we are playing music and we make a mistake, and we make a digital mistake with our fingers, there’s a part of our brain that automatically knows we weren’t supposed to do that. But the muscle memory part of our brain thinks that absolutely feels just fabulous and they’re going to hang on to it.
So you know if, if I play something correct 19 times out of 20, when I get to the concert, I’ve probably got a pretty good chance of getting it right. On the other hand, if I’m sloppy or non-attentive in my preparation, then that’s going to come back to haunt me. Back to haunt me.
You know, um Irvin kaufman, who was a cellist and guitarist with the pittsburgh symphony for years and taught at IUP in an office right next door to mine, would often say that you know, and I I don’t know whether this is his line or he got it from someone, but you know, we shouldn’t practice until we get it right. We should practice until we can’t get it wrong. Yes, and so for me, if I’m working on something really tricky and I feel like I just can’t, there’s no way that I can get it wrong, then I would say then I feel I feel good about that. So that’s, I mean, that’s one of the things that I do in my preparation is that I try just to be sure that you know, I, I leave no stone unturned with that.
I try to especially. I sometimes tell my students I wish you could hear how slow I practice. I practice very, very, very slow, sometimes Painfully slow because of the idiosyncrasies of my instrument. So slow preparation, I think that’s one thing. Another thing is to practice musically, and what I mean by that is is that I don’t separate preparation into technical preparation and then musical preparation. So in other words, I’m not trying to just get my fingers in the right spot and then I add the nuance. You know that should kind of be streamlined into the process.
So when you’re practicing, I sometimes liken it to like cross training. For, like you know, so like if you’re a triathlete or sorry, if you’re like a marathon one, you know you may do swimming and you may do bicycling as part of the training for the marathon. You’re not doing those events but they help you. So I kind of think about doing musical cross-training. So when I’m playing, practicing something at a slow tempo, I’m trying to play with my best sound, I’m trying to play with my best pitch If there’s musical inflection I try to put that in.
Am I successful with that 100 of the time? No, I I mean, I’m not going to sit here and tell you that, but I try this best my can, as best I can, to make that part of the preparation so that I’m streamlining everything, so I’m not just lining up the digital technique in my fingers, but what I’m trying to do is also impart the musical inflection. So that’s another thing that I try to do is I try to make sure that all of the fundamentals of what I’m doing are present at the earliest point in the preparation. And then, thirdly, just to listen. Listening especially, is good for tempi, I find I think about and I’ll use as an example. Earlier this year I was playing the Francis Pooling Sinfonietta, which is, if you don’t know, that piece. It’s absolutely fascinating. It’s for chamber orchestra and I listened to several performances and the tempi were all over the map even though blank had written it in.
So it’s like and I’m glad I did that, because it did help my preparation in terms of what to expect yeah you. So if you can listen to quite a few performances, you know that’s. I think it’s important to. I think it’s important to keep listening. Listening just is such a it’s such a vital part of what we of what we do.
Your host, Eleanor:
Yeah, 100%, I love. I love how we like went back to listening. Everything comes back to listening. I think as well, when you were talking about just practicing, like how you would perform, practicing as best you can. In terms of that, you know, I think that that is a great, great, great way to practice, especially coming up for a performance or an audition. I remember I recently did a competition and literally the whole week before what I would do is I put on a song, I dance to the song to get my heart rate up and then I just perform the pieces and yeah, and what, what that did?
I realized I was like, you know, I was thinking about, you know, my auditioning before, as a way of like, okay, in the practice room it sounds great, in the audition room it’s gonna sound not as great because I’m nervous, and that’s fine. But when I did this exercise and I got my nerves up, you know, I got my heart rate up and then I practiced it, I was like, well, this is where it is right, it doesn’t really matter. I mean, it does matter, but in terms of this audition, it doesn’t really matter where it is. When I’m chill, when I’m calm. You know, when I’m not stressed, this is where it is when my heart rate is up. So how do I get it better when my heart rate is up? And I think that that completely shifted the way I did that audition for the better. So when you were talking about just practicing how you’re going to perform and practicing to the best you can, I couldn’t help but think about that experience because that’s, you know, really important yeah.
Dr. Jason Worzbyt:
Oh yeah, well, and there’s a. You know there’s a mindfulness component to it as well. In fact, there are several really wonderful books about mindfulness out there and they’re kind of worth it. It’s that type of just kind of being aware of your surroundings and kind of aware how we process data when we play can also really be great. There are two books that immediately come to mind and you may have already you already may be aware of one or both of them, and one of them is called the Soprano on Her Head by Eloise Riestad.
And then another one is the Inner Game of Music by Barry Green. And those are wonderful books that talk about kind of like the mental, the mental part of what we, of what we do.
Again, my dear teacher, Eugene Corporon, would always tell us as performers, that is, that you know you cannot.
You cannot evaluate and participate at the same time. And so for me, as a performer, then I find that, especially if I have something really difficult that I have to play me, being mindful of something that contributes to the musical process is often very helpful. As an example, as wind players for the most part trombone’s kind of the exception to this, but as wind players, you know, we create the rhythm in our instruments and our fingers and we actually have total control over that. So for me, when I’m very mindful of how I am programming rhythms from my fingers to the instrument, am I keeping rhythms at the knuckle and am I doing that? That I found has been an incredible benefit to me In many ways, because it shows that I do have direct control over this process. Sometimes we feel when we perform that we wish we had control over more of the elements, and that is one thing we try to do in our preparation. But just just to have that mindset that we are in direct control of how fast or how slow we play.
Yeah, you know. Or if I’m concerned about my sound, I will put sometimes all of my awareness into breath support Am I muscularly supporting my sound? But so that I have some type of a focal point that takes me, so that I’m not listening to the noise that’s in between my ears.
Your host, Eleanor:
Yeah, interesting between my ears, yeah, Interesting. I think I mean as well, at least for me, what I feel like how I sound, versus how I actually sound there is a bit of a difference.
Yeah, so so I think you know. Really, honing in to how I play and what you were talking about with that is is so important.
If you found this insightful, let me know in the comments!
All my best,
Eleanor
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